Talk:Christmas

Saturnalia, Yule, and other pre-Christian winter celebrations

While the article on Christmas provides useful information, the omission or lack of emphasis on the pagan roots and the historical evolution of imagery could result in a perspective that favors the Christian narrative disproportionately. To fully meet the NPOV policy, the article should present a more comprehensive overview of all the historical, cultural, and religious influences that have shaped Christmas. This would help ensure a balanced presentation that reflects the multifaceted history of the holiday. 2620:0:E00:553A:5501:1B4E:14C6:226C (talk) 18:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

A lot of material was moved to Date of the birth of Jesus in December 2023. There is a lot of speculation, though, and the reliability of some of the sources is challenged. MichaelMaggs (talk) 18:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

The article's main purpose is about Christmas as a celebration rather than focusing on perspectives of it's origins. I agree that there should be some mention of the many influences on Christmas but the issue is that there is no scholarly consensus on the magnitude of pagan influence in contrast to Christian or secular influence. For instance, the origin of Christmas symbolism is constantly fluctuating with theories that certain items are pagan because paganism employed natural symbols in its rituals, whereas other sources point out that specific Christmas items like the Christmas Tree did not exist until Germanic Christians, or churches, utilized a unique combination. For instance, pagans did decorate outdoor trees with fruits and nuts, but they did not bring pine trees inside and decorated them with candles while simultaneously applying Christian meaning. This is where people enter a gray area of attributing a Christmas item based on similarity rather than providing strong support that it is undeniably derived from pagan traditions. Similarly, wreaths were used on heads by many different pagan cultures, they signified life cycles tied to pagan symbolism but advent candles on wreaths and specific Christian symbolism tied to the "light of Christ" or the meaning of evergreens with "everlasting life" are not pagan in origin. There are many other wiki articles focusing on the details of debates and discussions surrounding Christmas. Ranging from nativity, to the the biblical accounts of Jesus, etc. I do not see how one can outright claim pagan roots without inadvertly blanketing things that have no pagan origin. Similarly, is Santa Claus secular because of the commercialization of Saint Nicholas? Are reindeer pagan because of similarities with nordic deities, or secular because of stories like Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer? In essence these topics do not have a unanimous conclusion. ChaoticTexan (talk) 09:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Was just coming on here to read about the origins of Christmas and seen it said "It is specific to Christianity" and was confused because we all know it's not 90.250.186.134 (talk) 11:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Christmas and family life

2 point about Christmas and family life 105.112.209.218 (talk) 20:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 December 2024

Please insert where appropriate, which appears to be near the beginning of the Christmas WIKI:

Etymologically CHRISTMAS means "Christ sent" (<Latin misse.) The Anointed one, the Savior, has been sent, has arrived. French Noël, variant of Naël, means birth of God. Spanish Navidad means The Birth. The Philippines are even more astute; they refer to both The Birth and The Passover as Pasko. The Great Passover began in Bethlehem, it was finished on the cross. Jonbsevy (talk) 17:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)Jonathan Sevy

 Not done: This does not appear to be written in an encylopedic style. PianoDan (talk) 21:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

References

Modern Christmas Traditions Around the World

"I noticed that while the article covers traditional Christmas customs, it doesn't include modern traditions that have emerged in recent years. For example, Japan has a unique tradition of eating KFC chicken on Christmas. Should we add a short section or expand on modern cultural practices from different regions? I can provide reliable sources for these examples." JohnsonWiki2 (talk) 05:50, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Removed dubious claim from article

Mistletoe has sticky white berries, one of which was traditionally removed whenever someone was kissed under it. This is probably a fertility ritual. The mistletoe berry juice resembles semen.

Dubious claim, not in the source, and it would need a better citation anyway. The mistletoe I know has red berries, but I'm fine to cite no/weak source for that and the removal ritual if other folks here have heard of that being a thing (for the time being). Abeg92contribs 06:49, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2024

Christmas was never originally a Christian celebration, and the bible states jesus was born in summer around June/July time. I want a request to edit this page as majority of this information is factually incorrect and is spreading misinformation to those that may use this for educational purposes. 2A00:23C7:D982:3301:FCCB:379A:D96B:399E (talk) 09:14, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. cyberdog958^Talk 10:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Yup, some scholars made an argument that Jesus was born in a warmer season, but the matter is not settled. E.g. the birth narratives seem to be unhistorical, so there is no reason to trust their details. Anyway, major denominations do not claim that Jesus was born on 25 December, just that that's the religious celebration of his birth. "But Lupi has shown (Zaccaria, Dissertazioni ecc. del p. A.M. Lupi, Faenza, 1785, p. 219) that there is no month in the year to which respectable authorities have not assigned Christ's birth." [1]. tgeorgescu (talk) 07:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)