Talk:Gone with the Wind (novel)

Ashley Wilkes

Scarlett's hero is Ashley Wilkes and that is such a central theme that many commentaries have been made. Wiki editors do not assume there is only one "correct" interpretation -- our job is to provide a guide to what the reliable sources say even if the experts disagree. Rjensen (talk) 03:18, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Description of rape

Is the description here of Rhett raping Scarlett's objective? I see there is debate online even about the film, where it is left to the viewer's imagination. In the book, I think Mitchell's description of Scarlett's response makes it more problematic to call it rape.

He swung her off her feet into his arms and started up the stairs. Her head was crushed against his chest and she heard the hard hammering of his heart beneath her ears. He hurt her and she cried out, muffled, frightened. Up the stairs he went in the utter darkness, up, up, and she was wild with fear. He was a mad stranger and this was a black darkness she did not know, darker than death. He was like death, carrying her away in arms that hurt. She screamed, stifled against him and he stopped suddenly on the landing and, turning her swiftly in his arms, bent over and kissed her with a savagery and a completeness that wiped out everything from her mind but the dark into which she was sinking and the lips on hers. He was shaking, as though he stood in a strong wind, and his lips, traveling from her mouth downward to where the wrapper had fallen from her body, fell on her soft flesh. He was muttering things she did not hear, his lips were evoking feelings never felt before. She was darkness and he was darkness and there had never been anything before this time, only darkness and his lips upon her. She tried to speak and his mouth was over hers again. Suddenly she had a wild thrill such as she had never known; joy, fear, madness, excitement, surrender to arms that were too strong, lips too bruising, fate that moved too fast. For the first time in her life she had met someone, something stronger than she, someone she could neither bully nor break, someone who was bullying and breaking her. Somehow, her arms were around his neck and her lips trembling beneath his and they were going up, up into the darkness again, a darkness that was soft and swirling and all enveloping.

LeverageSerious (talk) 20:34, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

I think the book is emphatically clear that there is no consent. It's going to happen whether she likes it or not. I think the problematic part is that she enjoys it. It is incredibly taboo in today's climate that some women enjoy sexual assault, even rape, but there is an emerging body of writing on it: [1], [2], [3]. Betty Logan (talk) 11:34, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. The article on the film also makes the point that the movie scene is more in keeping with the fantasy of rape rather than the actual reality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gone_with_the_Wind_(film)#Depiction_of_marital_rape

I was just surprised at how much more ambiguous the book makes it. There is a suggestion at the end that she is kissing him back and putting her arms around him, and I wondered if Mitchell would describe it as it is described here. LeverageSerious (talk) 15:54, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

I think the film version very much plays into the trope of a rape fantasy. A rape fantasy is essentially about male power and dominance, rather than unwanted sex. I suppose the key difference between a rape fantasy and the reality of rape is that a woman doesn't fantasize about being raped by a man she doesn't want to have sex with, so desire overrides the thorny issue of consent. I would wager that back in 1940 Clark Gable forcing himself on to you was probably the most common rape fantasy of the era. That scene would have played a lot differently without a sex symbol in the role. Betty Logan (talk) 16:27, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

And I suspect audiences condoned a certain amount of domestic violence in the name of passion, in a way we wouldn't now. The very first scene in The Philadelphia Story has the romantic male lead throwing the romantic female lead to the floor! Not something you would expect Matthew McConaughey to do to Jennifer Anniston. LeverageSerious (talk) 18:05, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Helen Keller

Does it need to be made more plain that it was Helen Keller herself and not her slave owning Confederate captain father who supported the NAACP and the ACLU? 2600:1004:B33D:502C:18CF:9725:AB43:6692 (talk) 03:46, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

 Fixed. Station1 (talk) 09:30, 26 December 2024 (UTC)